Wednesday, August 14, 2013

Self Serving Propaganda

Off topic.

Have you heard the ads by the telecom giants, Bell, Rogers and Telus. They have some average employee who tells you that if the Government lets Verizon in to Canada then this unfortunate soul will lose their job and they and their family will be cast out to the wolves.

Funny how they pick lower ranking employees, not someone from the executive suite.

How about the CEO of Telus doing the ad and saying..." I made $11 Million last year and $10 Million the year before and if Verizon comes in, I may lose my bonus".

Or the Rogers CEO saying.."Next year I get a $18.5 Million retirement package and um...well good luck with that Verizon things".

In fact the three CEO's earned $23 Big ones between the three of them. Enough to run a medium sized hospital or two High schools.

That is our society folks.

These companies who have shamelessly outsourced call and technical centres outside of Canada, are now waving the flag and asking for protection from that big hairy American company.

We could be more sympathetic if you weren't such greedy ba$tard$!! 

My cousin who has ATT comes up here from the US and uses his phone without a second thought to call the US or anywhere worldwide for one fixed rate. 

Whereas we make sure we have every button turned off to airplane mode or free wifi only to make sure we never inadvertently down-load a text or e-mail in Calgary, never mind the US.

Last year I went to Europe and somehow my phone set itself free and downloaded two banal text messages and one e-mail. I heard the ping and my heart sank. Sure enough, when we went back home the bill from Fido (Roger's pooch to make us feel like we have choice) was over $50!

Welcome Verizon, who BTW can only have up to 10% of the market anyway! AND CEOs of Rogers, Telus and Bell, if you are so worried about your employees distribute some of your huge payments to them and let us have SOME choice as consumers.


  1. Not true. Verizon can grow to 100%; the 10% refers to how big an incumbent can be that it can buy.

    What will happen is Verizon will either not come, will leave, or it will drive one of the big three to below 10% and buy it.

    So we will be back to three in any case and we will not get lower rates. We will lose jobs and Uncle Sam will get to look at everyone's data even more than it does now.

    Harper might win a few votes by bringing in Verizon, if he can, but it is naive to think your phone bills will be lower. And no serious person could think this is actually good for Canadian jobs.

    1. The irony of the Telecoms who have mastered the art of off-shoring par excellence asking for protection is quite something.


      1) We have amongst the highest communication (fixed and mobile and data) costs in the world.

      2) Verizon will have to hire people to manage it's operations here. So who knows what the net loss of jobs would be.

      3) Consumers HATE the telecoms. The only good thing about Telus is their ads. I know dozens of businesspeople who would switch from Telus if they had a choice. They are always grumbling about costs and service.

      4) The 3 CEO's are earning the equivilent of 400 of their employees. If Verizon comes in and 400 jobs are lost, that would be the same as these 3 gentlemen are paid.

      5) It is a different world now. The Bay just bought Saks 5th Ave in the US, a landmark name. BTW Hudson Bay, a great Canadian company is owned by a US Private Equity Company!

      If Verizon buys Wind, Wind is part of an Egyptian conglomerate.

      In many countries Canadian Companies are the biggest Oil and Resource producers. Look at where Talisman and Niko and Barrick get most of their oil and gold. It isn't Canada.

      Finally, Andre Coyne, with whom I rarely agree on much did write something I did agree with in the Montreal Gazette

      Whenever I hear those words - "level playing field" - I reach for my wallet. It is the favoured phrase of every corporate special pleader looking for protection from competition. "We're not asking for special treatment," they will say, while asking for special treatment. "We just want a level playing field." Consumers and taxpayers usually end up footing the bill.

    2. Fish, I can tell you are a good guy and the type of guy who I'd enjoy having a beer with, BUT:

      1. You have no data to support the claim our prices are worse than Verizon. Verizon isn't a low cost carrier and they don't want to be and they never will be.
      2. Verizon will obviously minimize the number of jobs. You will be astonished how few Canadians they need.
      3. Emotional argument. You want to cut off the nose to spite the face?
      4. And what do you think Verizon's CEO is paid? Our guys are pikers!
      5. This point is either not clear or not relevant.

      Verizon won't buy Wind unless they get half the upcoming spectrum.

      I don't understand your gold argument. It is more relevant to look at telecom and the USA would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS offer our carriers the preferential terms Verizon is being offered. Ask the USA to reciprocate on these matters before giving away the farm.

      Bottom line is Verizon will cost a ton of jobs, we will give up data security, and it will do nothing to lower prices. We will end up with 3 carriers in the end, and send dividends down south. Our pension plans will get hit, so pensioners and the poor suckers working at one or more of the big three will get whacked.

      I agree that Canadian consumers dislike our providers, but it is better to threaten them with new competition rather than bring it in. It is better to encourage new tech like city-wide wifi like shaw is doing.

    3. Anon

      1) Our prices are much worse than the US, I have first hand knowledge of that. Lets see what verizon comes up with.

      2) Neither of us know what the job losses/gains will be.

      3) Are you saying we should just accept bad service, padded billing, restrictive contracts just so we can keep our telecoms super profitable like the banks. Who pays for this, the working poor do.

      4) Verizon is about ten times our carriers, the CEO makes between $16 and 23 Mill a year. Still an outrageous amount. What got me is the heart-string pulling ads of some employee who is in danger of losing their job, when the real money is made in the executive suite.

      5) My point is we have already let Target in, Walmart in, and now Neiman Marcus. Even the Bay isn't Canadian. Meanwhile our resource companies are companies are making big profits around the world. There is no reason why Telecom should be protected to the detriment of consumers. It is a Global world. Ask the Telecoms who have outsourced so successfully.

      Maybe the big 3 will pull their socks up. They sure didn't do so until we had the small carriers coming along and their business services are still very poor and expensive.

      we will just have to agree to disagree.

    4. 1. Fish, your data on prices is wrong. Full stop. Do you need references? You don't seem to want to supply me any. Your anecdotal evidence won't match mine. I pay 35/month for fido with all the data text and voice I can ever use. Verizon does not beat that.

      2. We don't know the job losses, but Verizon will hire as few as possible. You can certainly bet the bank on that.

      3. If you are getting bad service it is your own fault. Mine is excellent, and you need to shop around instead of complaining on a blog.

      4. Entwistle answered my phone call went I asked for him at Telus. Do you think the Verizon CEO would hear my complaint? You want to make him out like a greedy pig? Well, he sure sounded like a pretty fair guy when I talked to him. Maybe you should phone some of the CEOs instead of bad mouthing them here. It isn't really nice, and I know you are a nice guy.

      5. Telecom is not like coffee chains! Do you want the USA snooping on our data, our trade negotiations? Our corporate secrets? All of this is happening, but will be all the easier with Verizon here.

      We can agree to disagree, but facts are facts, and when I pay 35 bucks/month for all the data, voice and text I use I simple can't understand why people complain on blogs instead of spending an hour or two shopping around and asking for a better price.

      I know people have been treated awfully by the big 3 in the past, but there is no salvation in a high cost carrier like Verizon. I am certain we'd be better off just trying to disrupt the current model than bringing in another legacy carrier.

    5. 1) My friend in Victoria just got this deal from Fido. 200 daytime minutes. Long distance in Canada within those 200 mins. Week-ends and evenings free. Unllmited texting. Very little data (?200 MG I think) for $45/ month. My friend has an AT and T plan and pays less than that and has near unlimited data and long distance in North America and no limit. I don't know anyone with a Verizon plan in case you want to nitpick.

      And BTW the average monthly cell phone bill in CANADA is $77.

      2) Why don't the Telcos start off by repatriating the call centres if they are sooo worried about their employees.

      3) Good for you. You are a happy customer. Many Canadians are not, which is why there hasn't been an uproar about Verizon's entry/ hopefully it will be followed by At and T and others.

      4) Enwistlle answered your call..good for you again. What does that have to do with paying Telco and Bank execs $10 M a year , year in year out. For running what is in effect a Monopoly where the government prevents any new entrants from tipping the apple cart over. I think they are a tad over-paid. You may think differently and that is fine. Are the US Ceo's even more outrageously over-paid. You Betcha!

      5) They seem to be doing that anyway via the search engines and the Patriot act. Nevertheless this is one argument I can agree with.

      There is no choice in Canada, only pretend choice. Telus owns Koodo, Roger's owns Fido, bell bought Virgin mobile. the same three bit with 6 different brands. Where is the competition?

      A decade a ago, before Wind and Mobilicty, the big three gouged consumers. It was not unusual for monthly bills to run over $100, with texts being charged and added charges for every feature (which are now in phone), then they tried to ration data use and push up billing that way and now they are being priced down by the new entrants. Left to themselves they would gouge again.

      From a recent Huffington Post:

      "Consumer advocates fear that these companies’ disappearance or buyout by larger players could result in less competition in the wireless market, resulting in higher prices.

      Canada’s large telecom companies, beset by customer complaints about wireless service and costs, seem to be waking up to the notion that unhappy customers are a long-term threat to their business."

      Oh BTW in the US the average cell monthly cell phone bill is $47.50

  2. Turns out those folks in those print ads were actually stock photos from places other than Canada. The ironing is delicious.

  3. The big telcos have engendered so much hate in their customer base that most people welcome anything that punishes them. I remember that when I was at the Apple store getting my first iPhone I was complaining loudly about how terribly Rogers had treated me. A woman overheard me and complained bitterly about her experience with Telus. Another woman overheard her and told us her horror story about Bell.

    Almost everyone I know has "fired" one of the big 3 at one time or another because of the way they were treated. In my experience, the only time you are treated civilly is when you say, "I'm going to cancel my contract!" Then they suddenly become more accommodating but by that time I am usually so angry it no longer matters.

    I feel badly for any employees who are adversely affected. If the big telcos choose to compete perhaps they won't have to be. Management has brought this down on their own companies. Time to pay the piper (maybe).

  4. They are still buying...

    336 new
    169 price change
    234 sold

    7446 detached
    8880 attached

  5. rate holds are almost over

    1. That would make sense. Most of the buys I am seeing are cheaper end (if such a thing exists in Vancouver) and then still some high end Mainland Chinese buying. Should make for interesting averages!

  6. the mainland people are going to loose a lot of money just like the Taiwan did in the last boom but they don't matter because they buy expensive RE and only up to 10 % of the market share. The locals are the main drivers giving RE 100% so they aren't diversified. Everything is getting more & more expensive without saving money they will get wiped out. RE is only for the wealthy now and that is a serious problem

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